Can you please elaborate on the “Wish I knew this earlier” part? Did you have a hack rubber roof installed?

I have installed many EPDM roofs over the years. I have replaced systems installed by hacks as well as systems installed by large, unionized commercial contractors. I’ve also replaced my own work a time or two (no one is perfect). EPDM does have inherent problems, yes, but it still has a place in the market. EPDM survives because it is cheap and accessible, and when properly installed works just fine. Personally, I recommend SPF roofs to anyone that can afford one, but a lot of customers balk at the price. Those customers are looking for the cheap alternative and usually end up hiring cheap hacks to install EPDM. That doesn’t just happen in EPDM, but siding, concrete, windows, and everything else. The customer looking for the cheapest contractor usually gets the worst work. Your claim that no one other than a large commercial company can properly install EPDM is preposterous.

Rob – I never had a chance to properly reply to either of your comments.

First of all, I do not doubt your roofing abilities, but as you have read – I find it common place practice that roofers with ZERO flat roofing experience install rubber roofs (because it’s the cheapest and easiest to slap together product) left and right, and then we go out and repair or replace these fairly new roofs – often 1 – 5 years old. For me – rubber roof is a combination of problems – bad seams / flashing and TOO many hack roofers installing it.

That said, here is my response to you second comment:

There is nothing wrong with trying to sell your product that you may believe in, or maybe that is the one you can sell and warrant without being certified to install and obtain warranty for from the manufacturer. That is business.

We are a certified IB Roof installer. IB Roofs does not sell it’s products through distribution – only to licensed contractors.

It is much more difficult to sell IB roof vs. rubber roof / TPO and other cheaper products, mainly because people are cost conscious. And yes, we like IB Roof because of it’s lifetime warranty on residential flat roofs.

PVC is PVC, in time, and exposure to the sun, air pollution & the enviornment, it will break down, become brittle, and I have personally seen how it delaminates as it breaks down. The old Gates system was notorious for this. As well as becoming completely unable to be reactivated once cured.

All PVC roofs are different. IB roof does not cure, and remains weldable after 30+ years. So are some other PVC roofs. Here is a PVC Roof Repair article that I wrote a while back about Trocal and Sarnafil PVC roof repair.

Additionally, here is a video demonstrating a 30 years old sample of IB PVC roof, and as you can see it is not cured, and is VERY flexible.

I will make another video very soon to demonstrate how it welds together, and to the new IB material (stay tuned).

Good luck to you. But downplaying one time proven, widely acceptable, specified and respected product, to sell your own, first off eliminates a product you may want to sell in the future. And especially when preying on consumers lack of knowledge & fears, always come bask to bite you in the you know what.

I think the only reason why rubber is “time proven, widely acceptable, specified and respected product”, is because it cost’s a lot less than PVC roofs in general. Hence it is specified and chosen by roof owners.

As far as preying on consumer’s lack of knowledge – I think I explain it an all the details I can include, to show that why I believe rubber roof is a waste of money. Yest it will work on straight roofs with no penetrations, but once you get into complicated stuff, flashing on rubber roof fails (and so does the Mod. Bit). I actually believe that I inform the consumers of more than likely outcome of installing a rubber roof – especially a residential rubber roof, because that is where most of bad installs take place.

As far as wearing a white shirt – that picture is from a dance competition taken in 2006 (i could not wear a dirty roofing shirt ). And I am a real roofer too – not a college kid as you say. A roofer with college degree in computers and business management. And I’ve been roofing for more than 7 years, and all that time (except for 3 months training) as a roofing business-owner – not a grunt who gets paid $12 / hr, and only cares about going home at 5 pm.

All my roofs are installed with one basic premise – the roof MUST NOT LEAK – I do not want to make free-to-me trips to fix my bad work, and have a pi$$ed off customer. I want happy customers, who will give me good references! So I do the best work I can and go above an beyond.

The night before I start a new roofing job, I only get 3 hours of sleep, because I keep thinking about the details of tomorrow’s job, and how to make the flashing work, and how to make sure roof does not leak if it rains overnight, and cannot for asleep.

You think a $12/hr grunt thinks about that? I don’t think so.

Yes, I’m not an old timer, and do not have 30 years experience, but I’m only 29. However, about of roofing knowledge and hand-on experience that I have, and research on roofing that I do, is more than many old-timers will ever have. I only know how to install torch-down mod. bit. or hot-mop tar and gravel roof in theory – merely because I do not want to install them and never will. I don’t need to know those systems because they are outdated and inferior in my opinion. But I know how to install PVC / TPO / Rubber roof / Metal Roofing (Standing seam / copper / zinc / metal shingles / stone coated steel tiles / roof coatings ) well, because we install them (except for tpo / rubber), I honestly believe that I’m better at it than most roof mechanics (not all) – mainly because I do care about end product.

Well… I think this is enough rambling

I appreciate your input, and I find your first comment, most hilarious that I’ve had on this website ! That’s why I approved it without editing.

I think you need to learn how to spell “scum bag”. Also it’s bad manners to post profanities on someone else’s site. I approved you comment to make a point. Here it is:

Rubber roof is junk!

Besides the fact that seams will break apart and roof will leak, there is way too much roof for installation error with all the seam tapes / cover tapes, flashing contraction, bad adhesion, etc.

However, my biggest issue with rubber roofing is the fact that TOO many hack contractors (like you ) can easily install it rather cheaply (and that is the only way you can get the job – by offering low price), and then homeowner / business owner is stuck with crappy roof that needs hundreds or even thousands of dollars in repairs. Because you can buy rubber anywhere (now even Home Depot sells it) and do not need to invest more than $200 in installation tools, rubber attracts so many “real roofers” (not saying that Real Roofer guy from the comments above is a hack) who have no idea what they are doing, and screw the consumer, who buys into lower price tag deal.

And once a rubber roof is installed, and starts leaking – roof owner has no real remedy to force a hack roofer to fix it, so they have to hire professionals to repair their roof. And way too often the roof is beyond repair.

Here is a video of a commercial roof on a condo building which is ONLY 6 years old and is a complete FUBAR – hack roofers just had a field day with this one:

Bottom line – no one is immune from crappy installation. However, with rubber roof, your chance of getting a hack roofer is SO much higher that with PVC roof, which requires substantial investment in installation equipment, which hack roofer will never do. So your chances are much slimmer with premium roofing materials, and PVC roof will outlast Rubber roof any day!

Ray – I recommend you stick with asphalt shingles and leave flat roofs to professionals ( us ). Also, unless your comments are polite, they will go to spam!

Leo
I Think Real Roofer Kicked your A $$!! I agree with him. Your a guy trying to sell chit by fear! Scumb Bag! EPDM is a great product. Your like a KIA salesmen telling me BMW is chit! Jack A $$.

Thank you

Trudy